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Thread: Lead Ban

  1. #73
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jjb View Post
    They already proved native animals are ingesting lead. Whether it be weights or shot. So you’d have to prove that ingesting lead wasn’t as harmful to the wildlife population.

    I’d have a problem with it if they were doing it to further line their pockets. But in this case that’s not the idea behind it since there are other options. I think banning lead weights to a certain size is probably more reasonable.
    There are so many possible facets to this. To know if animals ingesting lead is a significant problem, finding lead in one or two ducks or whatever really doesn't tell you all that much. To have a reasonable understanding of the situation, there would have to be some kind of quantitative study, and I know damn well this hasn't been done. Since they are banning lead fishing weights, it would also be reasonable to ask if the lead was ingested from lead shot, or actually from fishing weights. It really defies common sense to believe that lead specifically from fishing weights could be ingested by wildlife in any significant quantity. This could really only apply at all to bottom feeding waterfowl, which typically feed only in water less than one foot deep. I just do not buy it...doesn't pass the smell test.

    My position is that a strong majority of California politicians disapprove of hunting and fishing, and are downright hostile towards people who participate in these activities. So they pass bans like this almost on a whim, without the objective science to back it up, just because they feel good about doing so. Bottom line: The interests of hunters and fishermen do not enter into their decision making, other than being biased towards restricting these activities in any way they that can.

    As far as "lining their pockets"....I think the revenue generated for the state from hunters and fishermen is the only reason these sports have not been effectively outlawed entirely.

    Really just a long winded way of saying that as fishermen we are on the wrong side of the politics in this state, and I have no faith whatsoever of the need for the laws that are passed, nor the stated rationale for them.
    Last edited by Owlman2; 05-22-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #72
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Owlman2 View Post
    So you're OK then with the government banning anything they want to unless you can prove that it's not harmful? Proving a negative is almost impossible. Seems to me that it would make more sense for the case to be made, objectively, about why something should be outlawed before such laws are even considered.

    And you're right...complaining will not help the cause...not in California. I'm just making the point that this is not about science, it's about knee-jerk feel-good left wing politics.
    They already proved native animals are ingesting lead. Whether it be weights or shot. So you’d have to prove that ingesting lead wasn’t as harmful to the wildlife population.

    I’d have a problem with it if they were doing it to further line their pockets. But in this case that’s not the idea behind it since there are other options. I think banning lead weights to a certain size is probably more reasonable.

  3. #71
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jjb View Post
    If you can prove that it’s not harmful than prove it and show them there’s no reason for lead ban. Otherwise complaining isn’t gonna help your cause.
    So you're OK then with the government banning anything they want to unless you can prove that it's not harmful? Proving a negative is almost impossible. Seems to me that it would make more sense for the case to be made, objectively, about why something should be outlawed before such laws are even considered.

    And you're right...complaining will not help the cause...not in California. I'm just making the point that this is not about science, it's about knee-jerk feel-good left wing politics.

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  5. #70
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Honestly as long as there’s a better alternative who cares. They aren’t taking away all weight options and no that won’t be a matter of time. The fishing industry is economically too large. If it’s for the best I’m all for it. If you can prove that it’s not harmful than prove it and show them there’s no reason for lead ban. Otherwise complaining isn’t gonna help your cause.

  6. #69
    Senior Member MtnFisher's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Owlman2 View Post
    Oh please, please stay...or I will no longer have reason to live....

    You are missing the whole point here. Yes we can work around a lead ban. But the stripping of our rights is an incremental process. When they eventually start banning things that leave no work around, we will wonder how we all allowed it to happen. Make no mistake, the powers that are running this state do not want to allow hunting or fishing at all, they just know they cannot outlaw it all at once.

    If I was to hear a plausible argument as to how lead fishing weights are damaging the environment, I would take that into account. All I have heard are disingenuous arguments that make no sense, and outright lies.

    Just like California wildlife agencies claim that every condor that dies in the wild has succumbed to lead poisoning. Have I examined the bodies to disprove this? No. Does it seem plausible? No. Do I believe it? Hell no. It is all "science" concocted and re-shaped to fit a political agenda.
    Well said Owlman!

  7. #68
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    Re: Lead Ban

    I'm waiting for a proposal to ban fishing line. Just a matter of time, really....

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  9. #67
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Owlman2 View Post
    Oh please, please stay...or I will no longer have reason to live....

    You are missing the whole point here. Yes we can work around a lead ban. But the stripping of our rights is an incremental process. When they eventually start banning things that leave no work around, we will wonder how we all allowed it to happen. Make no mistake, the powers that are running this state do not want to allow hunting or fishing at all, they just know they cannot outlaw it all at once.

    If I was to hear a plausible argument as to how lead fishing weights are damaging the environment, I would take that into account. All I have heard are disingenuous arguments that make no sense, and outright lies.

    Just like California wildlife agencies claim that every condor that dies in the wild has succumbed to lead poisoning. Have I examined the bodies to disprove this? No. Does it seem plausible? No. Do I believe it? Hell no. It is all "science" concocted and re-shaped to fit a political agenda.
    Like Global Warning. When that didn't work because temperatures went down they changed it to climate change to cover both bases. They wold the science to fit their agenda.

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  11. #66
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jacks View Post
    So you mean to tell me that we’re not innovative enough to come up with other ways to catch fish if they do ban lead? Seems like guys just want to get all political and find something to complain about. I haven’t been on here in awhile and probably won’t come back, while you guys are worrying about “smuggling” lead in from another state I’m out catching fish.


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    Oh please, please stay...or I will no longer have reason to live....

    You are missing the whole point here. Yes we can work around a lead ban. But the stripping of our rights is an incremental process. When they eventually start banning things that leave no work around, we will wonder how we all allowed it to happen. Make no mistake, the powers that are running this state do not want to allow hunting or fishing at all, they just know they cannot outlaw it all at once.

    If I was to hear a plausible argument as to how lead fishing weights are damaging the environment, I would take that into account. All I have heard are disingenuous arguments that make no sense, and outright lies.

    Just like California wildlife agencies claim that every condor that dies in the wild has succumbed to lead poisoning. Have I examined the bodies to disprove this? No. Does it seem plausible? No. Do I believe it? Hell no. It is all "science" concocted and re-shaped to fit a political agenda.
    Last edited by Owlman2; 05-14-2018 at 01:12 PM.

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  13. #65
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    Re: Lead Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by kromebrite View Post
    I was researching California demographics in terms of populations, etc. Something that stood out that is at least somewhat relevant to this thread is that multiple sources cited a registered voting population at less than half of the eligible voters. I myself am nowhere near as active as I strive to be, but in my opinion it would make for a better society if more citizens participated in the political process. You know, "for the people and by the people".
    What a blessing to be in a country where we can express ourselves and have a say in our destinies.
    I will get off the soapbox now, lol.
    How many resident, recreational, (hunting, fishing, guiding, ect.) licenses are sold in Cali? Should be quite a voting force! Get on it!

  14. #64
    Senior Member stefanoflo's Avatar
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    Re: Lead Ban

    If They ban lead .Fishing will Survive and so will Fisherman . No one Likes change or The fact The State of Californian Likes Change and Like To Make Stupid Rules to Feel Like they are Controlling the states People!!!Becasue they Feel we are IDIOTS

    A Life spent fishing, is never wasted.

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