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  1. #12
    Senior Member stefanoflo's Avatar
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    the key word is PROP !! which means that it looks as if it`s what we want to help what we need done ,when in fact it does what it wants because they want it that way . The Politicians that is !!!its all a game of lies and illusion!!!

    example Will be if Newsome wins the Gov Race without even really campaigning compared to Cox and his ads
    That`s a crime and tells you a lot of whats in this state!!!!

    A Life spent fishing, is never wasted.

  2. #11
    Senior Member Legalbeagle's Avatar
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSunfish View Post
    It's not that complicated....... You want a better habitat and fishery? Ask your political representative why they are not holding all agencies accountable to the law.... i.g., CVPIA of over 20 years ago

    Representation is focused on favorable legislation for an elite few, while the natural resources and public trust go down the drain....... tunnels, whatever.....
    Yes, please get out and vote. Once again, here is the article that sparked this thread:

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/ca...220320230.html

  3. #10
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    It's not that complicated....... You want a better habitat and fishery? Ask your political representative why they are not holding all agencies accountable to the law.... i.g., CVPIA of over 20 years ago

    Representation is focused on favorable legislation for an elite few, while the natural resources and public trust go down the drain....... tunnels, whatever.....

  4. #9
    SET THE HOOK!!!!!!!
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtrout View Post
    How quickly people forget Prop 1 in 2014. Was passed because it was supposed to build dams. Every project proposed has been turned down, even after having the worst drought in 100 years. So if you think another proposition, Prop 3, will suddenly build dams, I have a high speed rail bridge I would love to sell to you first....I'll sell it cheap.

    Restarting a salmon run is not easy and destroying established fisheries to try is not acceptable, especially since those salmon will be off limits to anglers. Look at the Merced River. They have a hatchery actively producing salmon but since it is "experimental", zero salmon fishing allowed.

    LegalBeagle, since you fish the AR, look at Folsom as an example of what is to come for most Central Sierra lakes if the tunnels are built and the San Joaquin river drainage raided.
    ALL TRUE!! Get out and vote to stop the lunacy!!!

  5. #8
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by murph View Post
    I'd like to believe building more dams would aid in storage, but during the flood when oroville nearly failed it was the first time since it was built that it was full. And it seems rarely are all of our reservoirs full. All of the prime dam sites have been used already so anything new would be in areas that are marginal at best for rainfall potential and storage. I think its time to start thinking a little differently. A certain amount of water needs to go to the ocean to keep the river ecosystem alive. Always scary for me to hear folks talk otherwise.
    Oroville has been full and going over the spillway many times,last year was the first time the emergency spillway was used
    Fisher of men first, fisher of fish second.

  6. #7
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    I'd like to believe building more dams would aid in storage, but during the flood when oroville nearly failed it was the first time since it was built that it was full. And it seems rarely are all of our reservoirs full. All of the prime dam sites have been used already so anything new would be in areas that are marginal at best for rainfall potential and storage. I think its time to start thinking a little differently. A certain amount of water needs to go to the ocean to keep the river ecosystem alive. Always scary for me to hear folks talk otherwise.

  7. #6
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    How quickly people forget Prop 1 in 2014. Was passed because it was supposed to build dams. Every project proposed has been turned down, even after having the worst drought in 100 years. So if you think another proposition, Prop 3, will suddenly build dams, I have a high speed rail bridge I would love to sell to you first....I'll sell it cheap.

    Restarting a salmon run is not easy and destroying established fisheries to try is not acceptable, especially since those salmon will be off limits to anglers. Look at the Merced River. They have a hatchery actively producing salmon but since it is "experimental", zero salmon fishing allowed.

    LegalBeagle, since you fish the AR, look at Folsom as an example of what is to come for most Central Sierra lakes if the tunnels are built and the San Joaquin river drainage raided.

  8. #5
    Senior Member Legalbeagle's Avatar
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtrout View Post
    Three issues are very much in play:
    1. Not enough storage for when rain/snow is abundant. Building of dams and/or building dams higher is/has been in discussed for awhile but very little is happening. Blame whoever you want but new dams are needed to support both fish and farmers for today and the future.

    2. Increase flows to build salmon runs for the San Joaquin drainage. Sounds great until you think about all of the lakes that feed the river and how those established fisheries will be affected by lower water levels. CDFW are trying to reestablish a fall and spring run out of Friant Hatchery, something that will take a lot of water, and will affect all those lakes along the San Joaquin. Am I willing to destroy the fisheries of Millerton, Mammoth pool, Shaver, Huntington and Edison to revive a salmon I will probably never be able to fish for? NO!!

    3. Increase flows from the San Joaquin will offset the water being taken by the twin tunnel project, allowing the delta pumps to continue operating instead of being shut down due to salt water intrusion because of a lack of water coming down the Sac. I have another phrase for it, it's called bait and switch. This is a power play that some communities already see and are making their opinion known.

    Be aware of what people in power are doing and the possible direct and indirect results of each action.
    Re: #1 that's being addressed as Prop 3 on your November ballot. I have no opinion on it. Will more money fix the problem?

    Re: #2, I don't fish any of those waters, but if dams killed the salmon run in the first place, I would be willing to do with less hatchery trout habitat (water in reservoirs) to fix the problem. However, I'm not expert on the situation--seems you did your research on it.

    Re: #3, Those of us who fish the American (until this year) are far too familiar with the "bait and switch." It's my understanding that they drain the AR first in Summer, than start draining the Sac. Hence, no water left in the AR in fall and a major problem for the salmon.

    The way I see it, there are at least two reasons to vote in November: Prop 3 (if it matters) and another reason, addressed in my Sac Bee link earlier.

  9. #4
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Three issues are very much in play:
    1. Not enough storage for when rain/snow is abundant. Building of dams and/or building dams higher is/has been in discussed for awhile but very little is happening. Blame whoever you want but new dams are needed to support both fish and farmers for today and the future.

    2. Increase flows to build salmon runs for the San Joaquin drainage. Sounds great until you think about all of the lakes that feed the river and how those established fisheries will be affected by lower water levels. CDFW are trying to reestablish a fall and spring run out of Friant Hatchery, something that will take a lot of water, and will affect all those lakes along the San Joaquin. Am I willing to destroy the fisheries of Millerton, Mammoth pool, Shaver, Huntington and Edison to revive a salmon I will probably never be able to fish for? NO!!

    3. Increase flows from the San Joaquin will offset the water being taken by the twin tunnel project, allowing the delta pumps to continue operating instead of being shut down due to salt water intrusion because of a lack of water coming down the Sac. I have another phrase for it, it's called bait and switch. This is a power play that some communities already see and are making their opinion known.

    Be aware of what people in power are doing and the possible direct and indirect results of each action.
    Last edited by Snowtrout; 10-29-2018 at 10:52 AM.

  10. #3
    Senior Member Legalbeagle's Avatar
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    Re: Make Fishing Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by stefanoflo View Post
    so let me ask
    if releasing more water is bad then why is it we want more water released for fish????
    Either or
    It goes to the ocean anyway and if they release water that are in spawning Ground areas for salmon then thats good
    ..NO??
    Timing is everything. My take on it is farmers want more water in the Summer to stem the tide of salt water (But don't just take my word for it--I know we have some scientists on this site that can give a better explanation). Then, Fall comes around and there's no water left for the salmon. Guess which group has more lobbying power: Famers vs. Fisherman.

    Salmon and steelhead definitely wait for a trigger before they decide to head up river. A low flow probably means warmer water temps = dead salmon eggs. No doubt salmon and steelhead also instinctively run when the flow is increased (especially during a rain) because that means the tributaries (if and where they can be found) are easier to navigate. My $.02.
    Last edited by Legalbeagle; 10-29-2018 at 10:26 AM.

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